I was born in 1943 and I lived in North Kensington from 1947 until October 1964. I lived at 4 Calderon Place, a cul-de-sac off North Pole Road. These memories mainly come from the years of my youth when I spent a lot of time roaming the streets with a number of friends the same age, particularly in my primary school and early teenage years. When I went to work I spent l spent more time at the youth club in the Sutton Dwellings estate where there was music and a lively social scene, so I spent less time in North Pole Road. The memories of the shops are therefore recalled from the period 1952 to 1962 when I can claim to have walked and played in the streets around and to have used some of the shops. I left the area in October 1964, returning only for very brief periods, mainly for the funerals of my Dad and sister.
I had sketched out the street plan and filled in the names from memory when Sue Snyder sent me a plan showing a comparison of the shops between 1950 and 2005. I used the street numbers from this plan in my own description. It is clear that my memories and the plan do not exactly agree. I have also included some shops in Latimer Road as they were so close and sold essential services.
STREET PLAN
North Pole Road was a lively shopping area where most of the locals did their daily shop. Anything more exotic could be purchased in one of the many larger shopping areas such as:
- Shepherds Bush Green and the markets in Goldhawk Road
- King’s Street, Hammersmith
- Acton High Street
- Willesden High Street
- High Street Kensington
- Oxford Street – where my school uniform was stocked by DH Evans.
In the North Pole Road shops it was possible to buy most items for daily use. They are shown on the plan by street number. The shops and my experience and impressions of them of them are described below:
There was private housing, 3-story buildings with bay windows at Nos 1 to 11. There was residential accommodation above most of the shops for use by the shop owners, or used sometimes as rental flats, except the small row from 2 to 4 which were single story shops
At Nos 13 to 15 was the North Pole public house, a Watney’s house, I recall. Inside it was brightly lit, cosy and just the right side of scruffy. Although a couple of years too young to drink legally, my friends and I decided to try our luck and buy our first pint in the Public Bar. The room was full of lads standing at the bar and old folk sitting at tables, scowling into their glasses of barley wine or Mackeson stout. A piano clunked away, background to the muted conversations around the room. As confidently as I could, I asked the barman for a pint of Brown Ale. He quietly put me right: You mean a pint of Bitter, son.’ Er, yes, course I did. Silently, he poured our pints and we congratulated ourselves on getting away with drinking underage.
At times a stall parked outside the pub. It sold cockles, winkles and shrimps in small dishes to eat at the stall or take home.
Our preferred pub was the College Park Hotel in Harlesden, a trolley bus ride away. The College Park had a livelier atmosphere than the North Pole, perhaps because of the large Irish community in the area. The other advantage to us was that it was less likely we’d be recognised as under age.
Tony’s at no 24 was a barber’s shop, tagged on to the main terrace of shops. Tony was Italian and wore a pale blue nylon jacket and modelled a slick, modern hair-style. The shop had a row of sinks with mirrors above where customers sat to be transformed his into the Elvis look-a-likes whose images were displayed in photographs on the walls. Tony could cut and style hair while chatting to the reflections of waiting customers in the chairs behind him. Tit Bits, Picture Post, Daily Mirror and Sporting Post were stacked in an untidy pile on a small table. Tony once asked me if I required ‘something for the weekend, sir.’ I had no idea what he meant. I still wonder if he was trying to embarrass me in front of other customers or if he thought I was old enough to require the ‘something’ he was offering.
Across the road at no 17 was a ladies’ hairdressers which also cut and styled men’s hair. I can’t remember the name of this shop, but I often used it. It had a less frenetic atmosphere than Tony’s and the magazines for waiting customers included Lilliput, My Home, Punch and Reader’s Digest. Punch was a challenge at my age, but I enjoyed Reader’s Digest. At both hairdressers the finished hair style would be finished off with the application of copious amounts of a cut-price version of Brylcreem, and at Tony’s there was the alternative of a spray of blue stuff that turned you hair into a stiff crust. If you didn’t want these products, it was important to watch for the moment when the hairdresser was about to grab the grease and quickly say ‘No, thanks’.
There were two greengrocer’s shops. Bolt’s, at No 21, was small with open shelving displaying produce. The entrance was opened and closed with a large shutter. We occasionally bought penny apples with our pocket money. I remember it as a single storey building attached to the end of a terrace, close to the railway embankment. There was an earthy smell, probably from the open sacks of potatoes, along with the sweet smell of fresh fruit. It was very cold in winter. In 1983 I had a short script used on Playschool on BBC TV featuring a goat. The fictional family who owned him, the Bolt family was inspired by my memory of Bolt’s.
Silverton’s greengrocer’s shop was at No 2. The lads who served customers and humped sacks of vegetables around were older and tougher than us. They drove white Ford Zephyrs, fancy motors that cost more money than a shop assistant would be expected to earn. Their mysterious wealth caused us to treat them with respect. Silverton’s was more sophisticated than Bolt’s, a ‘proper’ shop, although penny apples were also on sale there. At one stage both shops were owned by the same family although I can’t remember whether that was Bolt or Silverton.
Hawkin’s grocers at No 4 was a large, well-stocked shop with a long wooden counter running the length of the shop on each side and an elevated cash desk at the end. It had bare floorboards. As you went into the shop you could buy bacon, cooked meats, cheese and eggs at the left hand counter. I remember being sent to buy green back bacon cut to my family’s preferred thickness. The right hand counter was for dry goods – flour, dried fruit and cereals, for example. I can’t remember how the bills from each side were managed by the cashier. It was a very orderly shop that smelled of a mixture of meat, spices, bread – the sort of smell only found in small shops in France and Italy today. The queue started at the door and two or three customers moved along the counter and were served with a lot of chat and gossip. There was no hurry in those days.
I think the manager was a Mr Bates with his wife as cashier. He parked his beige Ford Prefect every morning in Calderon Place. In the summer holidays this was very inconvenient as the car was parked in front of a tree that we used as a wicket for our games of cricket. We had to move up towards the end of the street where there were more windows in danger of being broken. We had to replace our wicket-tree with a wooden fruit box begged from Bolt’s.
Kent’s sweet shop at No 4a was a large shop that sold sweets in glass jars, for example Sharps’ Assorted Toffees, Murray Mints and Riley’s Chocolate Toffee Rolls. For a special occasion there were boxes of Cadbury’s Milk Tray, Black Magic or Terry’s All Gold. Chocolate bars I remember included Fry’s Peppermint Cream, Fry’s Chocolate Cream with a white or mixed colour filling, Fry’s Five Boys and Macintosh’s bone-shaped caramel filled chocolate bar in a red foil wrapper.
You could also buy assorted loose sweets by the quarter pound or by the pennyworth: fruit or banana split chews, flying saucers, sherbet dabs, Spanish wood, winter mixture, aniseed balls, sherbet lemons and assorted boiled sweets including large, multi-layered gob stoppers. My favourites were aniseed balls and Fry’s Peppermint Cream. Kent’s smelled of chocolate and sugar. We took our time deciding on our sweets and were never told to hurry up.
Kent’s also sold soft drinks. My favourites were Tizer, Dandelion and Burdock, and R. White’s American Cream Soda. A summer special was a glass of ice cream topped up with American Cream Soda. They sold Wall’s and Lyons Ice Cream. You could buy small bars that fitted into a wafer cone or sandwiched between two flat wafers. There were also larger blocks which, with a packet of Askey’s wafers, could be carried home wrapped in newspaper to keep them frozen. There were choc ices and home-made lollies that rapidly lost their taste. The shop sold cigarettes and tobacco. I didn’t smoke but I remember some of the brands: Woodbines, Senior Service, Players and Three Nuns. As summer came to an end fireworks arrived in the shop: boxes for families and a pick-and-mix selection including penny bangers, Catherine wheels, jumping crackers and rockets.
I think Kent’s had another small shop in a row of shops on Dalgarno Gardens near to the road that led to Sutton Dwellings. I recollect the Post Office moved into Kent’s in North Pole Road from its original location at No 8, which then became the launderette.
Barratt’s Off Licence was at No 6. Br Barratt was a tall, dark suave gentleman with a dark five o’clock shadow. My friend, Mario, from Bracewell Road, used to be sent to Barratt’s to buy a bottle of Beaujolais for his dad. He was about twelve years old, but the wine was always handed over with no question. My family very seldom drank wine, the usual drink was a quart bottle of brown ale with a screw cap. Special occasions were celebrated with a bottle of sherry.
The Launderette at No 8 was certainly there in 1964 and had been open for several years before that. It was busy as few families had washing machines and it was probably cheaper than the dry cleaners. On cold winter evenings we would linger in the warm, steamy atmosphere with the smell of soap and clean, washed clothes – if the shop assistant could be persuaded to let us stay.
Bowen and Williams Chemist was at No 10. It was a traditional chemist’s shop with a deep porch and the name of the shop picked out in dark tiles on a white-tiled background. I remember getting large cans of blackcurrant preserve there, probably as a source of Vitamin C.
It was where older lads bought condoms as there were no female assistants to cause embarrassment. Bob, a friend of mine, worked there part-time and he occasionally slipped us a packet of Durex or Ono (which came in a tin). They were no practical use to us at the time, but just like having our first pint in the North Pole pub, it was a rite of passage to have a packet of Durex in a trouser pocket.
My friend Martin went out with Gloria, a daughter of one of the owners of Bowen and Williams. ‘Going out’ meant walking the streets with her as she took her corgi out in the evening, while I accompanied her friend Valerie. The shop entrance was our pitch of choice for ‘penny for the guy’. It was sheltered from the cold but we could be seen by passers-by on the pavement.
Davies’s Dairy was at No 14. I had a milk round using their heavy, three-wheeled delivery bike. My mother worked here cleaning the premises. I had to load the bike with bottles from the crates stacked up outside the shop and add extra bottles as people would often stop me to buy a bottle. This early morning job was followed by my paper round at Ellington’s, delivering papers on my own bike. Only then did I set off for school.
Davies’s was one of the many Welsh-run dairies in London. At the top of the hill in Harlesden was Jones’s dairy. The family came for the same village in Wales as my mother. I knew their daughter Haulwen, who tried to shake off her Welsh roots by calling herself Ann.
At no 16 was Miller’s Bakers (previously Glanville’s). Miller’s had another shop in Portobello Road. My mother worked in both shops. They sold the usual bread, rolls and cakes, along with penny buns which were either currant buns or bread rolls. A school friend, Alan, who was at school with me at Thomas Jones Primary, lived over the North Pole Road shop although their house door was in Bracewell Road. I spent many evening hours chatting to his sister on their doorstep. She was probably only a year older than me but seemed much more mature than I was. She taught me to recognise Orion in the winter night sky and told me about books she had read. Under the shop was a large basement which was possibly where bread had been baked in the past. Alan and I played there using candles for light.
Ellington’s Stationers was at No 18. It was a well-stocked shop, clean and orderly. I had a paper round there and clearly remember the freezing February morning when all the paperboys were devastated to see the headlines telling us that Buddy Holly had died in an air crash. We all loved Buddy but the local rock groups, like the Bel-Airs, loved his red Fender Stratocaster more, an American guitar that they could only dream of playing. Ours was a black and white world and Buddy, with his new, truly rock and roll style, made life more colourful for us.
Ellington’s stocked greeting cards, Basildon writing paper and Conway Stewart pens. They had a good selection of board games and books. I used to buy my Biggles books there. The covered entrance was a favourite hangout for us kids on cold, windy days.
I distinctly remember a radio and electrical shop at No 20 (contradicting the street plan). The window was filled with large, dark wooden cabinets that housed radiograms, wireless sets and televisions. I’m sure my parents bought a Peto Scott radiogram from this shop. My dad was very protective of it and I was forbidden to use it in case I broke it. Towards the end of my time in North Pole Road, large plastic radios began to appear in the windows.
At No 22 there was a mysterious shop that sold surgical appliances. The window display included plastic scale models of male torsos wearing pink corset-like undergarments. Why would anyone wear these items? The local name for the shop was ‘the truss shop’ but I didn’t make the link between the nickname and the window display. It may of course been an ordinary haberdasher’s
There were two butchers’ shops on North Pole Road: at No 2 and No 12. These were of no interest to me as a young boy so I don’t remember which shop my mother used. Both shops sold liver, kidneys and heart, meat that’s not often sold in modern shops. Occasionally, I feel nostalgic for the offal I used to enjoy.
The Shoe Repair shop at No 19 was where school shoes were re-soled with Philips rubber soles.
The tailor and dressmaker’s shop has no number marked on the plan. I think it was probably at the invisible junction between North Pole Road and Barlby Road. My mother went there sometimes to have my school uniform altered.
In winter the Muffin Man trudged up Latimer Road selling muffins and crumpets, crying his wares as he went. In summer Mancini’s ice cream van served Italian Ice-cream cooled by dry ice at the Wormwood Scrubs gates in Dalgarno Gardens. Sometimes, ‘Johnny Onions’ arrived from France on his bike to sell onions and a knife grinder also set up in the street, pedalling his trike on its stand to power the grinding wheel.
Latimer Road.
Some shops at the top of Latimer Road formed part of the North Pole Road shopping experience.
On the corner of North Pole Road, opposite the pub, at No 193 Latimer Road was a laundry, bag wash and dry cleaners.
There was a fishmonger, wet fish displayed on a marble slab. He also sold penny bags of crisps. These were broken bits from the Smiths Crisps factory on Great Western Road. They came complete with a blue twist of salt and we thought they tasted much better than the ‘proper’ bags of full price crisps.
There was an ironmonger’s shop sold screws, nails, hinges and a host of other items which today would be used for DIY. It also sold paraffin for room heaters: Aladdin Pink and Esso Blue – an evocative smell. Paraffin was advertised on Associated TV, the commercial station for the area. The Esso advert experimented with colour by ‘strobing’ the signal on the black and white TV to provide a weak blue, green and pink colour effect. It also featured a cartoon character famously called ‘Your Esso Blee Dooler.’ This shop also sold paint and wallpaper. The wallpaper had an edge which had to be removed on a manually-wound roller cutter to remove a strip of paper.
There was also an electrical shop selling plugs, fuse wire and light bulbs. This was a busy shop. In those days, before the standard 13 Amp flat pin plugs, houses had 3 pin 5 Amp plugs for most domestic equipment, 3 pin 15 Amp for three bar electric fires, some 2 pin sockets with no earth and even bayonet light sockets on the skirting boards. At my cousin’s house at 2 Calderon Place, I poked my fingers into a light socket on the shirting board and got my first electric shock.
Further down Latimer Road, next to the Royal Volunteer pub, was a fish and chip shop. As the only one in the area, there was always a queue. The frying oil was sieved regularly and crispy batter bits deposited in a tray so be added to customers’ orders on request. There were jars of pickled eggs and pickled onions on the counter.
St Quintin’s Avenue
The GP Surgery was in a large house at the junction of North Pole Road and St Quintin’s Avenue. My doctor was Dr Sweeney.
By Alan Seabridge, 2020
North Kensington Histories 
Terrific! Thank you.
I was totally in thrall with Alan’s memories of North Pole Road. I arrived here in February 1962
I do have very similar memories.
I think I knew your parents and sister Sue. They were such nice people.
Best Audrey
Hi Audrey, thanks for the comment. My mother was known as Connie then, her real name Ceinwen being too Welsh for some people. My Dad worked on the buses, my sister Sue went to Fulham County School. She had an apartment in Coronation Court much later on and died there in a fire in 2006. I left in 1964 for other places inLondon, and came to Lancshire in 1969 and have been there ever since. Regards, Allan
Allan, I have always thought of your sister as I had heard the fire engines and living opposite I watched Sue’s flat burn. I didn’t know where she was. I was feeling a bit frantic.
Apparently she was very overweight and I believe the firemen carried her out and rested her in an ambulance. I didn’t know she was there, I didn’t know where she was. Later I earned that she had died, Oh poor Sue, I still think of her, she really was a very nice lady. I knew her from when she was a child and played in the cul-de-sac with my daughter.
I have been reading today all your North Pole Rd growing up times. I think your memories must be part of everyone’s memories. Thankyou so much for them!
It was great reading some of this. It just brought back so many
memories. I used to work at Millers cake shop for awhile
on the Golbourne Road and if i am correct Alan, your friend’s dad
was the delivery man . Sometimes the cakes might be a little bit cracked
and I would get a bag for a couple of pennies.
I went out with Alan for awhile. I didn’t know that the guy delivering
our cakes was his dad until Alan took me back to his flat
for a cup of tea and his dad walked in which was OK because i liked
his dad – he was always so nice, had a little mustash I think,
happy sole. Alan was blonde and good looking and his friend
was taller also good looking. We went to the Community club in Barlby road i think it was.
They were nice guys, I hope they are doing ok
Strangely enough i told my daughter about them not that long ago.
My name is Roseanne i lived in Southam Street.
I had two younger brothers and three other sisters.
Hi Roseanne, thanks for your comments, I am flattered. Another more famous Alan lived in Southam Street around the same time – Alan Johnson. His book ‘This Boy’ describes life in Southam Street very well.I also went to the community club in the Sutton estate just off Barlby Road and Dalgarno Gardens. The group that played there was the Bel Airs.
we are all doing OK after all those years. Best wishes, Allan
Thank you Allan Seabridge for your wonderful article on North Pole Road. I lived in the Sutton Estate from 1940 until 1965. The memories came flooding back, reliving school days and going to most of the shops in your article….especially Kents the sweet shop, clutching my sweet coupons whilst deciding which sweets to buy.
I certainly enjoyed my trip down Memory Lane, thank you again.
Yvonne Reynolds
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Thanks for the comments, Yvonne, I had forgotten all about rationing and certainly don’t remember using coupons but I suppose I must have done. Do you remember going to the youth club in the community hall at the top of the Sutton estate to listen to the Bel Airs group? I remember playing borrowed records there on an old record player wired up to the building”s sound system, and also painting one of the upper rooms totally black and putting in UV lighting, must have driven the youth club leader crazy. I have been trying to find out more about the group and the youth club for a future session of memories. Do you remember Ray Lant or Susan Lant?
I enjoyed this trip down Memory Lane. How do I post a similar history of the area?
This is Sue from the blog.
How to add to the website.
If it is just a few paragraphs you can add it yourself as a comment on an existing posting that relates to yours.
However if it is quite lengthy and it requires its own posting with title etc. then I have to post it for you. First then you need to tell me what you intend to cover.
Then you will have to send me the text as a word doc and any photos saved separately as JPEGS. If I have access to any photos that we can use, then we can include those too.
Reply about this direct to the email address below
northkenstories@yahoo.co.uk
I look forward to your contribution.
Thanks,
Sue Snyder (Website administrator)
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Hello Allen,
I have really enjoyed your comprehensive post. Thank you.
I would like you to share my memories of North Pole Road. I lived in St Quintin Avenue until I was 18, then moved to Ealing. All my boyhood friends lived in and around St Quintin Avenue, and Highlever Road.
On Saturdays it was my job to do the shopping. With a large shopping bag, I made off into North Pole Road. First stop was a small cleaners/tailor alterations, owned by a wonderful Jewish couple. They lived in St Quintin Avenue. Next the greengrocer Silvertons (later taken over by Bolts). Onward to Quy, the butchers, then Hawkins for the general groceries. I remember the managers wife sat on a high seat at the end of the shop taking the money. Kents the sweet shop for some chip nut fudge! Cross the road, pass Barretts the off licence to Bowen & Williams the chemists (where as a boy I had a weekend job). I believe David Saunders was the first boy to work there, followed by his brother Robert, then Roger Thomas, my chum. When Roger left I took over as the weekend boy. Pass Jim Storeys (greengrocer), to Jones the diary for milk, Millers for bread, cross the road to Ellingtons for the papers. I would collect Picture Goer and Picture Show magazines for my sister. I remember a lad who lived in the flat above Millers I believe, his name was Mario Spiteri, his mum worked in the laundry. Past Ellingtons was a small electrical shop, there I purchased my first transistor radio. Across the road was another electrical shop, I had to take the home radio accumulator for the weekly charge. Next to that was a barbers shop. Harry, charged tuppence for a short back and sides. I recall Bolts the greengrocer at the end of the terrace of shops, close to the railway bridge. At the top of Latimer Road the shops included the laundry, a wet fish shop, a shoe repairers, and of course the oil shop/ironmongers, where I too obtained paraffin. A small shop named “JoPic” was opened, selling wallpaper, paint etc, in between the oil shop and the shoe repairers. Further down Latimer Road was a wonderful fish a chip shop, newspaper and all!!). Outside the North Pole pub on Sundays, a shell fish stall could be found serving cockles, prawns, muscles, jellied ells and whelks! At Bowen & Williams, Wyn Reece was the chemist/optician, assisted by Mr Hills, Mrs Fox and Mrs Joan Saunders. I remember Gloria, and her Corgi, she was Mr Reece’ daughter. She was a very quite charming girl. The North Pole pub was a lively place at the weekend, the locals would sing their songs accompanied by a pianist, struggling on a very old out of tune piano. To the left of the entrance was the pub off licence.
I remember Dr Sweeney, a tall, slim bespectacled Irish gentleman.
You may recall a lad Martin Wing, he lived at end of St. Quintin Avenue, opposite the triangle. His Dad had an old gold Renault 5 he was forever working on.
During schooling, I would catch the No7 bus, under the bridge, to take me to Ladbroke Grove, then change onto a No52 to get me to Arlie Gardens and Holland Park School.
That area of North Kensington was wonderful place to live and grow up, with North Pole Road being very much the hub of the community.
Thank you again.
I was born in latimer rd and lived there from 1948 till we moved after my dad died in 73, loved the area although now all i knew is sadly changed or gone…..nice read.
Great memories Graham. Can you tell us when you were born to help put it into context. I presume in the late 1940s since you went at Holland Park School.
Sue from northkenhistories
Hello Graham, a fantastic feat of memory, thanks for your comments. I’m glad to see that we agree on many points. My memory tells me that the Dairy where I had a milk round was Davies, but it was a while ago. It was definitely Alan Kendal who lived abover Miller’s Bakers, and his sister Pat that I talked to on the doorstep. I spent a lot of time with him and once pitched a canvas ridge tent in the room above the shop to test our ability to set it up. You have correctly identified Mario as Mario Spiteri and he lived half way up Bracewell Road, he had two brothers Romeo and Guido and a sister Ada. We used to watch TV at his house – one of the few families to have a TV then, watching ATV and Highway Patrol . You have also identifed my mate Bob as Bob Saunders and his Saturday job at Bowen and Williams. Gloria and her corgi must have been well known, she was a nice girl, so was her friend Valerie! I don’t know Martin Wing, I knew a Martin from Latimer Road but I can’t remember his surname – he wrote a song for Gloria when we were tying to set up a group – many years before Van Morrison did a better version. I knew a number of boys from Highlever Road, the bit running from St Quintins to Oxford Gardens – Alan Twydell, Peter Shannon, two brothers whose Dad was a builder, David and ?, Eddie Wilman from the bit of road that ran across the base of the Triangle. At the junction of the northern bit of Highlever and the junction with Barlby Road was a house on the corner that had a number of racing cars and car transporters in the garden – do you remember that? what team was it? I had forgotten charging accumulators for the radio.
I have livedin Lancashire for over 50 years, although the fish and chips are good here, I still remember those from Latimer Road chippie.
What years does your memory cover??
Regards, Allan
Hello Allen,
Thank your for your kind response.
First up, you were correct about the dairy, it was Davies not Jones, and Alan Kendal lived above Millers. This was an exciting mistake, because I can now tell you Alan Kendal was in my class at Oxford Gardens School. I remember him well because he had this extraordinary talent of being able to pencil draw. His work was outstanding. Like most of the lads who lived in and around North Pole Road, he was charming and well behaved.
I was born in 1945 at my home in St. Quintin Gardens. My three sisters were also delivered there. Generally, in those days, most births took place at home. My eldest sister is Yvonne, followed by Diane (deceased) and the younger Sylvia. The house I lived in was the last house in St. Quintin Avenue at the junction with Highlever Road. It was knocked down, and now a large block of flats.
A brief history of my development. Between the ages of 3 years to 5, I was placed in “The Day Nursery” in Highlever Road. At 5 I went to Oxford Gardens School until I was 11 years old. Eventually, following the shake-up in education policy, I found myself at Holland Park School.
Returning to the immediate area, and in an effort to help identify as many of the wonderful people I shared my early life with whilst living in St Quintin Avenue. But, firstly I will try to help regarding the house in the northern part of Highlever Road, with all the racing cars and transporters in the garden and garage. Allan, I believe the team was in some way connected to “Vanwall”. See below:_
“Vanwall was a motor racing team and racing car constructor that was active in Formula One during the 1950s. Founded by Tony Vandervell, the Vanwall name was derived by combining the name of the team owner with that of his Thinwall bearings produced at the Vandervell Products factory at Acton, London”.
Your chum Robert Saunders lived in Highlever Road, one of three children. His elder brother was David and his sister was Angela. I knew them all very well. Their father was a retired policeman. Their mother had a heart of gold. David did his National Service in the RAF. He was a very cleaver, as indeed was Angela. Both boys went to St Clement Danes School, in Du Cane Road. Robert worked in a laboratory of a chocolate company in Wood Lane, College Park end.
Moving down the road, next door lived the Haywards, their daughter was Susan Hayward. Next, and a recent family to move in was the Kleins, they had a son Ronnie, he was a big friend with Robert. Sadly, Ronnie passed away in middle life.
The Boltons are next, they had a son and daughter. The daughter was Jacqueline Bolton, I cannot now recall her brothers name. Jacquline was a wonderful girl. I can see her now walking to school, dressed in the grey uniform of Godolphin Girls School. I believe she was about seventeen when she became ill with leukaemia. Sadly she died. To this day I think about Jacqueline, had she lived, where her life would have taken her. I understand her brother went on to become a medical doctor.
Now, the boys whose dad was a builder. David and Jimmy Carter. I spoke with David a few years ago. We played bowls together at the West London Bowling Club, tucked in between Eddie Wilmans’ house and the next dwelling. We lost his brother Jimmy prematurely to cancer. They too were a fine family.
Mr & Mrs Sinclair had a son named David. He was in my Scout Group (22nd Kensington). A fine cricketer, went to Westminster School, onto University and became a career officer in the RAF. His dad William, was a fine lawn bowler at our club. He was commissioned in the Brigade of Guards during his service in WWII.
Next to the Day Nursery lived the family Prendergast There were two boys and a girl named Diane. Diane, a lovely person, sadly, she had an untimely death.
Moving on and to be brief, the following families I knew of and in many cases the father was a serving police officer:
The Korrie’ (Cories), Ian Johnson, David Fawcett, Gordon Spiers.
Roger Thomas was my friend. He had a brother David. His dad was a police officer, Edwin. He served at Notting Hill police station, and was affectionately known as “Pip Thomas” to his fellow officers. After retirement he became the stores man at Harrow Road Police Station. He handed me my kit on my arrival to D division. I would have tea at their house on a Sunday and watch their TV (we didn’t have one at home either). The Range Rider, The Cissco Kid, my favourite serial was the “Moonstone”. I was very lucky to have such a chum. Roger married a girl who lived across the road, Adrienne Weeks. They moved to Bicester in Oxfordshire.
Moving towards the Oxford Gardens end, lived Ian Stroud, he was in my scout group. Further down on the left was my good friend Bruce Newman. We went to school each day together. His dad was the excellent green keeper at the bowls club. His elder brother was in the Royal Navy. I think this may have prompted Bruce and Roger Thomas to join the RNVR, based at HMS President on the Thames.
Allan, here are some names you may well remember, they would visit their friends from Highlever Road: Tony Lockwood and Raymond King, both lived in or off of St Quintin Avenue. You have mentioned Eddie Wiman. Last I heard he has been living in the USA for many years. Ronnie Atherton also lives in the US.
Finally, do you remember, on some Sunday mornings, The Kings Troop, Royal Horse Artillery, would travel down St Quintin Avenue, into North Pole Road, heading for Wormwood Scrubs. There to practice their horse, gun and timber drills. All in No 2 dress of course! And then the barrage balloon with the box attached to it, again on Wormwood Scrubs. Soldiers would practice their jumps from the box – fascinating! At times, Asian military pipe bands would take the same route to the White City to practice for the magical tattoo’s. The splendour of their uniforms was an amazing sight to behold.
Well Allan, I could go on, but I believe, for the time being at least, I have said enough. I hope this has been of help to you.
Stay safe.
Best.
Graham Evans 21.11.2020.
Hello Graham, thanks for the information about Vanwall, I have been trying to remember that name for years! Good to hear about Alan Kendall, I couldn’t remember what school he went to, except that it wasn’t the same as me – Thomas James School along Latimer Road. I wonder wher he is now and his sister Pat. Many of the names you mention I just do not recal, either the two years between our ages or the fact that kids played in small areas without straying far beyond them. Even so Calderon Place was only 100 metres or so from you, so no real excuse, but my friend wee mainly in Bracewell Rd and Sutton. I do now remember David and Jimmy Carter, another lapse of memory,thanks for that recall, as well as Eddie Wilman. Do you remember the Down’s Syndrome boy called Eddie – a very cheerful lad who wandered about – he appreciated a chat. One boy I did meet up with who lived in St Quintin’s Avenue closer to the Doctor’s surgery, in the basement flat, named JImmy I think, he had once had TB but that’s all I can remember. He also had a TV and we watched things like Hopalong Cassdidy, Roy Rogers and Rin Tin Tin. Did you mean The Lone Ranger and Tonto, by the way? There is a lot of information about those series in the FIfties on Google.
I lived in Calderon Place – a great street to play in the 50s – born in Queen Charlotte’s in Hammersmith in 1943. My mum and dad stayed in Calderon Place for a while and then moved to St Quintin’s Avenue in the 80s, and my sister lived in Coronation Court.
I do remember the cavalry troup and watching the paratroops jumping from the barrage balloon, also exploring the site of an AA battery at the back of the Scrubs towards Acton. There was a small hill close to Harry’s cafe – we often wondered why it was there but never came up with an answer, it was good for riding bikes on. I remember watchin Z cars being filmed there. There was also a speedway track on the cinder patch to the left of the Scrubs, I think
I am going to write some material abut the cafes in the area – Harry’s on the Scrubs, Rosa’s near the Pavillion, our first taste of sophistication with espresso in glass cups and a juke box – did you ever go there?. Also Jack’s on Westway, which had pin tables, another new thing. We used to be allowed into White City for free after a certain time at night and saw some athletics and horse riding there. One last question – do you remember going to the community centre at the back of Sutton Dwellings, the group there was the Bel Airs, I spent quite a lot of time in there.
I went to St Clement Danes in Du Cane Road. Holland Park must have been a great new experiment in education – a good topic for a blog. Do you still live in London? I left North Pole Road in 1964 and have rarely been back. There are enough memories to last another lifetime, pity we can’t talk about it.
Best regards, Allan
Hi Graham Evans, Do you remember The Boxing day party at your house 1962/3 where me Ken Rumsey Tony Evans Johnny Evans Bill Joynson and a few others we were just leaving about 2.am when someone shouted out “look at that snow outside” It was a foot deep, always remember that, when we got outside pissed as newts we started throwing snowballs at each other and falling about on the road. The guy that worked for Vanderval Motors (Western Avenue branch) was one of their mechanics, his name was Roland Ducke. he sold his house and bought a boat in The Broads
Hi Alan
This book sounds great. I’m gonna get my daughter to order it for me.
My memory’s of Southam St
We lived at 102 and the school, they use to call it the dolls house was just at the end of the road. I remember big fires in the cosy class rooms, not much else. Then i went to St Mary’s. I remember Sister Austin very well. My teacher was Sister Patsy – she was beautiful. She gave me my school photo as my parents didn’t buy it and at the end of term she called me up to her desk and gave it to me. I still have it. Whereas Sister Austin for some reason had to take our class and she called me up to the front and told me to put my hands out in front. I was shaking, I had no idea what I had done and she was not telling me. All I could see was that big wooden ruler and I made a run for it.
i remember my parents having to go to see her and then coming home and telling me i didn’t have to go back there. My parents were Irish so whatever happened they were on my side. I don’t know what i would have done if they had made me go back.
I remember the pie and mash shop on the Golbourne Road and the fish and chip shop, the german butcher’s. They sold great ham, I used to eat bits of it on the way home .
The Seven Feathers youth club was great. Bill and Connie use to run it , a great old couple
I was born in 1949 and we moved to St Charles Square when i was about 11. The only good thing about that was it was warm. Southam Street there was big rooms and my dad was a decorator so he did it really nice. Our new home was tiny compared to Southam St.
We later found out that they had knocked down the wrong end.
St charles Square i hated, it had bloody huge cockroaches. My dad use to get his blow torch and suddenly turn lights on and burn them
Does anyone remember the Duke of Sussex?
It was a fairly new pub but it was really nice warm and cosy
modern nice people
Ron and Jake Peel, Tony, Brian, Peter and Paul Bennett.
Eddy i heard he died in a car crash.
Rose, Norma, Shirley, Wendy, Susan and
the Murphy twins.
If you look on this website you will find a recent posting on all the pubs of Latimer Road from end to end including the Duke of Sussex. Have a look at it and write your comment again at the end of that section on the pubs. There is a photo of the old one.
Sue from the website.
it’s a shame about the Duke of Sussex
it was a nice place for younge people i remember going to
the pub on the corner of southam st and the golbourne road
with my friend sylvia Dukes she use to take me to see
her nana who lived at the other end of the street
and she would give sylvia her jug and tuppence
and we would go to the snug and tell the barman to
fill it up with ale 😂
my parents would have gone crazy
if they had known i was in their
but i lived going and someone always gave us a bag
of crisps or a penny i thought it was great
you could hear the piano and a big fire was on the go
i use to think growing up
all pubs were like that
it was only when i got older and went to
the duke of susses i found out differently
does anyone remeber the name of the pub in southam st
For the query about the mound on Wormwood Scrubs after the war had finished I think I am able to offer a solution . It was just south of the Scrubs Lane site ( there being two parts ) and I suggest it was the remains of a water tank. I always assumed the tank was an emergency one if the mains suffered in the bombing. To the best of my memory the actual cement /concrete tank form was removed quickly but the elevated mound remained for seveal years . We would drag our bikes up the slope ( or even ride them up !) and then whizz down again at increasing speed . Logically, the tank would be held at full volume ( like a domestic loft tank) until required .
The only other water tank I can remember was that situated more or less on the corner of St Marks Road and Chesterton Road. This tank was, I assume, built on a bomb site after clearance, and its base was more or less level with St Marks Road.I would remember peering over its wall once the war had ended and it was drained of water leaving bricks etc lying around on the bottom. Unlike the Scrubs mound this would not have relied on hydrostatic pressure and presumably a powered pump was used by the fire brigade/auxilliary service if needed .
I do hope the above is of interest and thank you for the memories. From about 1940 up until about 1965 I lived with my family, first at 5 Maxilla Gardens and for a short while at 2 Maxilla Gardens.
Best wishes
Michael Shanahan
Michael, thanks for the response. that is a good explanation, much better than something being buried inside the mound. It was great to zoom down it, whatever its intended purpose. I have to admit I had to look up Maxilla Gardens, and there does seem to be a lot written about it. One thing I have learned from recalling this history is that the territory of the kids of that time seems to have been quite limited in its reach, I don’t recall any declared boundaries, except that there were some areas we just walked through, and other we went to for a purpose.
Regards, Allan
Hi Allan I have just stumbled across your blog. My name is David Walker and I was born and lived up to the age of 18 with my brothers Peter, Bob, sister Shiela, and younger brothers Melvyn and Richard. in 10 Snarsgate Street. The first turning down from the North Pole off Latimer Road. Although I would imagine taking away the XL cleaners and other factories that separated our two Cul De Sacs we lived about 100 yards apart. Nevertheless, Calderon Place was a place we seldom stray into and always a bit of a mystery to us kids in Snarsgate Street. . The only bloke I knew who lived there was called Roy KIng a pal of my older brother Pete. It just goes to show London is not a sprawling Metropolis as some would think but clusters of small villages like ours.
I was born in 45 so you are a couple of years older than me but your name is familiar ( did we ever meet) and your life certainly mirrored mine. I also worked in Davies the Diary for 10 bob a week delivering the milk on the trade bike to the Suttons and Peabody ( only got the job because Mr Davies didn’t want to climb up all the flats stairs). I must have weighed about 6 stone dripping wet in those days as I often had real trouble counterbalancing the crates of milk with sitting on the bike saddle. I daren’t get off when someone stopped to buy a pint I just let them serve themselves. Bolts the greengrocers did eventually own both the shops in North Pole Road. The original one carried on under Johnny Bolt ( the family also had a stall in the portobello market) and the other by the railway bridge ( this shop seemed dark wet and gloomy ) was managed by my brother’s mate Alan Turner who lived in the Suttons. I am pleased to hear mentioned Harry’s the barber. I still have dreaded thoughts of the times my Dad took me there ( mainly in the school holidays) for the compulsory short back and sides and a bit off the top, Harry’s crocodile chrome clippers looked menacing and I was always fascinated when he used the lighted tapers from the big silver brazier on the wall to burn the hair from my Dads ears and nostrils when it was his turn. I well remember all the other shops people have mentioned and had the same experiences running up to bonfire night with the guy stuffed with leaves from the Little Scrubs. My pitch was always outside the Pole (North Pole Pub) where on a Saturday I sold The Standard Star and Evening News football results for Ron Judge while he drank away the profits in the Public Bar. I certainly remember admiring the racing cars on their trailers round in St Quentin’s as we reluctantly trudged up to Bethany Hall in Barlby Road for Sunday School. My Dad also did building work for Norris Vialls who lived a couple of doors from Martin Wing opposite the triangle. My favourite shop was always Hawkins the glass-topped biscuit tins along the front of the counter forever tempting little hands to sneak in and sample the Bourbons. The next best was Barretts the off licence. Every Saturday night my Dad’s family gathered with us at our two up and two down house for a game of cards ( I still can’t work out how we managed to squeeze everybody in). When it was over my uncles always gifted me the empty quart bottles to get the 3d deposits back. A nice little earner towards my firework club down at Teddy Maybanks in Walmer Road on my way to Oxford Gardens School. My least shop was Millers (later ABC bakers) my job on a Saturday was to go and buy 8 loaves for our large family. My Mum allowed me to take my younger brother in the pram. I try to forget the number of times I left him outside distracted chatting to my mates and needing to go back when I remembered him halfway down Latimer Road.
I also wanted to help to fill in some of the gaps about shops in Latimer Road. The wet fish shop was owned by ‘Bubbles’ Webber he in latter days also ran the stall outside the Pole. He lived in our street at number 5 and had a daughter named Sandra. When he gave up the fish business he became the groundsman at Latymer School playing field ( corner of Wood Lane and Du Cane Road). Next door to him was Rowe the cobblers ( my great uncle Ed did work for him ). Further down Latimer on the other side XL cleaners and corner of Snarsgate Street Bob Harburns bookies. Across the road was Joe Collins’s sweet shop. Opposite ‘Joes’ ..Hytex rubber factory who made wheels for Dinky toys hot water bottles etc and Greville Tinners they dipped metal and made chrome bumpers. It did whiff a bit on hot days the mixture of rubber and zinc oxide not the best of fragrances. I don’t think they would get away with all that pollution nowadays but it was our little world and knew no different. A little way up on the same side was Peter and Muad’s delicious fish and chips shop that sat conveniently next to The Volunteer pub. Over the next street Latimer Place an upholsterer and Orville Hopkins diary where my Mother cleaned.
I think that is enough for now. Can I just congratulate you on your brilliant and entertaining summary of life around both North Pole Road, Jacks Cafe, Rosas The Scrubs and beyond. They have brought back so many vivid memories of times gone by that I lived, loved and laughed, shouted at by Rosa watched football and crazy Irish Hurling on the ever muddy Scrubs. The spectacular crashes on the Cinder speedway and the visiting bank holiday fair. Shared wonderful times with the members of my extended family sadly no longer with us.
Many Thanks
Dave Walker
Fantastic memories!
For Dave Walker. Thanks for comments Dave – you have filled in some gaps. I remember Snarsgate Street especially for the bonfires in November, they were easily the best in the area, although doing no favours for the road surface. I walked past every day when I was at Thomas Jones School but I don’t thinlk I ever knew anybody there. As you say, so close as the crow flies but almost different worlds. I have tried, but cannot recall your name. My wife, from Lancashire, can hardly believe how villagey London was, especially where we lived because we were divided from much of the west by the scrubs and the school playing fields – at the end of North Pole Road it was a mile to the mighty metropolis of East Acton, Shpherds Bush or Harlesden with hardly any residential areas between. So different to the crowded streets of Notting Hill and Kilburn. So many names have slipped from memory – I was good friends with a lad called Martin who lived on the opposite side of Latimer Road close to Snarsgate St, but I can’t remember his surname. His Mum drove a Standard Vanguard which was a bit unusual.and he spent a lot of time with me and my mates in Bracewell Road which was our ‘HQ’, we tried with no success at all to form a band when skiffle was the in thing. Thanks again, so nice to see comments. Regards, Allan
Hi, Allan thanks for your reply. I’m pleased and strangely a little proud about your comments on Snarsgate Street bonfires. We really tried, storing up all the bits of wood and furniture from summer onwards. I’ll let you into a little secret the reason they were the best is that we dug up most of the original old wooden tar blocks from under the tarmac road surface so the fire burned bright and long even the Fire Brigade had trouble putting them out. It’s a wonder over the passing years that the whole street entrance didn’t turn into a sinkhole. I am still unsure to this day whether it was the difference between a better equipped Fire Service or our ever depleting tar stocks that saved this event from actually happening
I’m sorry, although I knew most of the families living at that end of Latimer Road I don’t recall a lad with the name of Martin. I agree with the Standard Vanguard bit because I was always into cars but alas no.
However, my cousin Bill ( William) Cozens lived at 326 Latimer Road a few doors down from the Pole and went to Thomas Jones about the same time as you.
You said your HQ was in Bracewell Road. I had an uncle and aunt Lou and Joan Walker and cousin Suzanne living there at no 24. More or less opposite lived Wendy Evans and her sister and brother. Perhaps you came across or remember some of these people or names.
Before I close can I put my tuppenny worth in about the mound on Wormwood Scrubs. My Dad was a local jobbing builder before and during the war and apparently had some connection with the construction. He would talk about it when we were watching the Paras practice jumping from the barrage balloon usually on a Sunday. He always said it was used for anti-aircraft guns to protect the Old Oak Common Lane railway marshaling yards ( which I now understand was a vital London supply link ) which skirted the East Acton side of the Scrubs. I personally witnessed in one of my pre-teen years the earth mound being partly removed and when over the Scrubs about a week later it was completely gone but I can’t recall the water tank. Hope this helps.
Best Regards Dave
Hi Dave, thanks for all the further information. I remember Bill Cozens but can’t picture him. About Wendy Evans. I recall three ginger sisters, I knew Janet well, and her younger sister was called Wendy, I can’t remember the name of the older sister and only vaguely remember a brother. Have I got this right? They lived on the odd numbered side of the road, next to Barbara Hewison.
I remember the gun emplacements at the Acton end of the Scrubs, where there was a clear field of fire, I seem to remember a lot of trees near the hill, so still a bit mysterious. I shall use your comment on the bonfires in my next episode.
Dave – a while ago you mentioned that you worked a the Davies’s Dairy – probably the same round as mine, climbing the stairs. I have come across a book called the London Milk Trail that documents the migration of people from Cardiganshire to London to set up dairies. There is mention of one family Richard (Dick) Davies that had a business in Latimer Road – could that be the Dairy in North Pole Road?? If you can remember the names of any of the Davies family I would love to know. Allan
Hi Alan, always good to hear from you. Yes it was Davies Dairy where we both worked but unfortunately can’t remember any of the Christian names. That was days when we called all grown ups Mr or Mrs.very seldom using their first names only if you wanted a thick ear of course .
The only other dairy in Latimer Road was owned by Mr Orville and Mrs Hopkins ( my Mum cleaned there twice a week) it stood in a little parade of shops past Latimer Place ( orginally Park Street). According to Google Earth they have all bar one been converted into houses. The dairy would have been the last shop at the end which is number 266.
Hope this helps.
Best Regards
Dave
Sorry Alan. just an addition but perhaps stating the obvious I would suspect that the Davies Latimer Road reference may have been confused as his shop in North Pole Road as you know stood more or less at the junction of Latimer Road. There were no other dairies that I can remember past Oxford Gardens and into Walmer Road. So Mr ( Orville) and Mrs Hopkins look the prime candidates in that area. i would be interested to see if they are also referenced.
Hi, Allan re Wendy and Janet Evans you have described them well. Like you can’t remember the brother. I think he was much older. I bumped into Wendy in the late seventies out at Harefield. I had not long moved to nearby Uxbridge. My wife two children and I moved there under the old London County Council housing scheme for young families. She also recently moved to Harefield. We stood and had a bit of chat about the old days but not seen her since.
Hi Dave
Snarsgate street used to be the play street for most of us boys who lived local to it in Latimer Road especially during the school holidays when we would meet up most days and organise ball games, home made cart and scooter races etc. to the annoyannce of a few of those residents without kids. It probably became a games area as it was a cul de sac and had a very smooth road surface ideal for the ball bearings being used for scooter wheels. We used to get the ball bearings from the Rootes workers who visited the Cafe on the corner of Snarsgate Street the owner was Maurice or Mos Cafe. The Rootes factory was in Barlby Road where they made Hillman cars. Also one of the boys who used to turn up was John Mansell who lived in the basement next door to the doctors surgery in St Quintin and so did Ron Powell who lived on North pole Rd next door to the North Pole Pub. Dave I do remember you and the rest of your family and relatives and some of the other familys down Snarsgate St. Opposite you lived Bernard and Fred Taylor and Victor Saville then there was Jimmy Duffield who played the drums and did a very funny act in tight rousers and a wig long before Max Wall. Also the Smiths
My mother May Saunders was the manageress of the launderette at 8 North Pole and she ran the shop with Gwen Fox who lived in Barlby Road and Eileen Gittins who was Peter Gittins mother who lived at 463 Latimer Road. Sid Barwell who ran the cafe on the scrubs lived above the launderette with his wife Ollie and son Mick.
I remember your dad Fred doing quite a few jobs for my dad at 479 latimer Road he was an all-round tradesman i remember watching him wiping a lead joint on the mains water supply in the kitchen what we called the scullery in those days.
I am still in touch with Len Oconnor from 453 Latimer Rd (which has been knocked down) and Derek (Dick) Camp from 461 Latimer Rd.
Hi Ken, I’m pleased it is you from the old homestead. You’ve certainly stirred the depths of my memory mentioning names like Ron Powell and John Mansell.
I did have a nostalgic smile about Jimmy Duffield but you forgot the white gloves I remember he always wore them when doing one of his ‘shows’. It was o.k. for you older ones who got to the Rootes blokes first for ball bearings, us young uns had to rely on Ken and Ray Smiths Dad who worked for an engineering company to get ours. I got many a clip round the ear from my Dad pinching his tools to make the carts. Your right about the neighbors complaining, Mrs Seal at no 14 and Mrs Maddox No 7 the usual moaners shouting for us to go and play outside our own houses. Happy days though.
After my Mum and Dad died brother Bob bought Number 10 and lived there until he died in 96 of a brain tumor. My sister Shiela died a couple of years before while on holiday in France. The rest of us scattered far and wide. We lost Pete five years ago to lung cancer so only three of us left.
Although I’ve been living on the North East Coast for the past thirty years and no real need to visit the area. I still see some of the kids from our street usually at family funerals. People like Ray Smith, June Duffield, Rita Allen who lived a couple of doors from you, and my cousin Bill Cozens who lived across the road at 326 Latimer The only person I know who still lives in the area is Ray Smith who has a flat in the Suttons. The last time I saw Lennie Oconnor in the mid-eighties out at West Drayton he was driving a skip truck. And I also bumped into Freddie Taylor around the same at the White Horse pub in Iver where he had become the manager. I still have good memories of your Dad Charlie in his braces and your Mum May she always had a nice smile when I sometimes went with my Dad to your house.
I do have a photo of all the Snarsgate Street families taken celebrating the end of the war. Most of the other names you mentioned are in it. You may be also. If you would like a copy you can contact me on hytexlad1742@gmail.com.
Thanks for the reply and the memories shared.
Dave
Hi Dave, I don’t know if you are still following this thread. I have just been back to North Ken for the first time since 1964. Strange memories and sights – the area is a lot smaller than I remember. My long, long trek to Thomas Jones School turns out now to be just a few minutes, although of course most of Latimer Road has gone. Snarsgate Street, which I thought was the same style as Calderon Place is of course full of what would now be called ‘bijou cottages’. I could almost smell the fireworks and smoke at the end of the street. I doubt that I will ever go back, but it was good to look around and to write down what I experienced for a nother blog article some time. good time, I hope your memories are equally good. All the best, Allan
If you want a photo to appear on the website, you can email a jpeg copy to me, Sue at northkenstories@yahoo.co.uk. Include any information that you would like to display alongside the photo.
Sue
Do you have any information on The Earl of Zetland Pub. It was located at the end of Walmer road, across the street from St Francis of Assis Roman Catholic Church. When I was there in the 70’s the windows were boarded over. My grandfather, James Place, spent a lot of time therr. He was reported to have a lot of boxing and soccer trophies on display. They all seem to have disappeared.
David – I know nothing of the Earl of Zetland pub, there is some info and photos on Google. Try the following sites ‘Born in W10’ and ‘Born in W11’ which may lead to people who know the area better. Also try the boys clubs articles on this site and the author of the 14 pubs of Latimer Road. Sorry I can’t be more help. Allan